SAVOIR FAIRE Collected, Vol. 4, Part Three

The Edge What do you think is the most surprising element to being a collector? For people who are outside of that world, what do you think would be most shocking to them about it? 

Morgan You collect for yourself. It’s about passion. I think you can tell when there’s a collector who’s buying something because ‘this is what I think I need, to be respected’, or ‘I need to buy that, because this is a cornerstone’. But I think passion is what really drives us. That’s the key element that makes Neil do what he does, and what makes me tick. 

Neil Right. I often call the watches on my wrist my ‘social armour’. My business means that I’m at a lot of different dinners, different events, and a watch is pretty good social armour. There was probably a time in my early thirties when I was trying to figure out how to get more expensive watches, because I thought for some reason that would be proving something, but I’ve had as many unique stories started from a luminous orange Bamford plastic watch as much as anything else. 

I think collectors often make the mistake of chasing a value game instead of a love game. You can see it on the forums that Morgan and I are often on, when somebody asks, ‘hey, I’ve only got three thousand dollars to spend. Should I buy this, or that? Which one’s going to be more valuable one day?’ And you think, no – go for the love. It might not be three thousand bucks, but find something that speaks to you, as opposed to looking at a thing on your wrist that has a certain monetary value. 

Morgan That’s right, buy for yourself.  

Neil And if you’re Morgan, buy a lot for yourself. 

The Edge On the subject of value, obviously vintage Heuer prices have skyrocketed in the last decade. In your minds, what are the main reasons for that?  

Neil In short? Traceable race heritage. Stories that you can look back on. Look at modern day TAG, which is growing based on articulating that heritage in different ways. It’s probably one of the reasons that Porsche is so fundamentally strong – the lineage of the 911, you can trace back 55 to 60 years. 

The Edge Morgan, what’s your take? 

Morgan Two things. Firstly, you can put watches in a shoe box, and they’ll be fine. They’re these great works of art, and they’re so mobile. I love that. And also, the passion involved. When you talk to someone like Neil – when he did his flask, I discovered it when I went on his website, and I was like, ‘he did that?’ It’s impressive because it was driven by passion – and I don’t even drink, I put coffee in my flask. When you’re passionate about something, it oozes out of you, even in the way you speak. Jean-Claude Biver – why is he considered the ultimate showman? Because he has passion. He speaks confidently. He speaks with love. You know when someone is BS-ing you or not, and when you talk to a watch collector who loves their collection, it’s contagious. 

When you look at what Heuer has been, since the 60s, it’s sexy. I also think there’s a racing renaissance, I think that has been a big factor as well. Heuer has a lot of reeditions coming out, and they’re not afraid to show new things. They have the Bamford collection, they have a golfing version. Autavia used to be orange, now they have the red, the green, the Calibre 02. People are so afraid to try new things that now we’ve become tired of seeing the same old things. We want new colours. New life. You have to try new things otherwise you’re not going to feel that excitement. 

The Edge Do you think there’s a particular watch from Heuer history which is underrated? Or an element of design, more generally, which is due a resurgence? 

Neil I function from the visuals. So I think the Pasadena has life left to give. I’m not very good at keeping track of current values, but let’s call that a fifteen hundred dollar watch. The black Pasadena, visually, is a tight watch with a good chronograph layout. That’s something that has room to grow, that people don’t really know that much about. I think it’s fascinating. I also think we might see a resurgence in dash timers, and dash clocks. I’m very vehicle oriented – a lot of car collectors that I’m aware of, they’re moving back to vintage racing, to the experiences of cars. I wouldn’t be very surprised if we saw other interpretations of clocks happening, things that just sit beautifully on a desk, things like that. There’s some leftfield thoughts for you.  

The Edge I love it.

Morgan Definitely the Pasadena, the Montreal. There were these watches that were worn by drivers that weren’t winning as much, so they got a lot less press. But as you know, the Carrera 1158, those were always given to the winner. So all these great people had one. Niki Lauda had one. And then there’s the 2446, which was a classic, everyone loves it. For me, I’ve always loved the helmet alarm clocks. I have a whole collection – surprise, surprise. There was this huge backlash with the Hodinkee travel clock, I don’t know if you guys heard about that.

Neil [Laughs] It was deserved. 

Morgan But now those things are like ten thousand dollars, and no one is willing to sell them! They created a cult classic, if you will. Personally, I love those helmets. They’re cool, because they speak about the past, but they also talk about the future. I always feel like those are a little bit undervalued.

Neil I think we go through chapters or fashions, with sizes, too – a 42 millimetre watch feels big again, compared to five or ten years ago. We’re working on a kids watch brand right now, so I’ve been wearing a 33 millimetre watch, it’s tiny, but it’s kind of fun on your wrist. Also, I would say things like the Dato Carrera probably still have a lot of room to go up, value wise – it’s a small, clean execution, black dial watch. It’s like a tuxedo. Not that it’s a particularly affordable watch right now, but I still think it has room to go up. 

Neil I’m going to give two answers. The ‘Orange Boy’ Autavia, because it stands alone. I’m sure somebody else might say something more obscure, but there is no other watch that has that visual – its use of silver, grey, orange. It was a standalone iconic piece that I’d argue could sit next to a Pepsi Bezel GMT and look just as identifying, and I think that’s amazing. It’s still unique. And also, for the visual balance, the 2446, whether it’s Rindt, or GMT – the Rindt, for me, was always the 2446 that I wanted to chase. I think visually, weight wise, lug size, that’s the one that was bang on.

Morgan The 1163V. 

Neil Oh, sure. 

Morgan That’s ridiculous. When I was at the Heuer summit in 2013 I saw two 1163Vs there, and I was like, what is this? I’ve got to get this. I was asking everybody if they would sell me theirs, but nobody would. I had three days to schmooze everybody, and by the end of the trip I had told everyone – ‘anybody who wants to sell me their 1163V, please contact me, please’. At the time I think maybe they were going for eleven grand, maybe twelve, and that was pretty expensive for Heuer, but I was like, screw it, fortune favours the bold. My kids may never be going to college. So by the end of the trip, because I had told everybody I’d buy one, I ended up owning four. I couldn’t keep all of them, but yes – so yes, the 1163V is very sexy to me. Just because of the experience I went through to get it.  

Neil We could probably spend another two hours talking about random adventures trying to get a certain watch. 

The Edge I love acquisition stories. Please don’t hold back, Neil, give us one. 

Neil Well, mine was a 2446 Rindt that had papers documenting an argument between the owner and Jack Heuer. Basically the owner had sent it back for service three times, and eventually told Jack that his company was junk. They had a pretty visceral argument, through letters to each other. The process of getting that was scary. At the time what I should have been spending on a watch would have been about three thousand, but I blindly wired seventeen thousand to a guy in Chicago who had sent me a blurry flip-phone photograph of his NRA membership card as identification, and I was thinking, ‘I’m going to lose my house over this’. But I had to do it, and luckily the watch arrived. I sent the pictures to Abel and he almost had a heart attack. I also once found a ‘Big Eye’ Autavia, a first generation Autavia, which was a case and dial, and nothing else – it had a Breitling case back, and hands from a Rolex, and some other random parts. I found it in a flea market and sold it to another collector who was able to do something with it. 

The Edge Can I ask how much that flea market find was?  

Neil I think I got it for twelve hundred bucks.

The Edge That’s a pretty expensive flea market!

Neil Well, they knew it was worth something. I think they actually had it on sale for two grand, but I was like, ‘it’s four different watches. You can’t sell it for that’. 

The Edge It was Frankenstein’s watch.

Neil [Laughs] Exactly. 

The Edge Maybe I shouldn’t use an infection analogy at the moment, for obvious reasons, but you mentioned passion being contagious, Morgan, and the energy and passion you both have as collectors is certainly contagious. 

Morgan Well, it’s not just about us. If we can help someone else find their next watch, and unite them, that’s what it’s all about. This is our hobby. We love it, and we don’t apologise for it. 

Neil And the collector community is friendly, it really is.  

Morgan Absolutely. I don’t like being around people who are like, ‘I don’t want to talk to him, he only has this or that’. What kind of attitude is that? But Heuer guys are downright great. They’re hardworking, down-to-earth. Just make sure you indicate that we are the sexiest.

Neil Oh yes, I’d like the introduction to say that we’re the most youthful, engaging, unique duo you’ve had on the series. 

The Edge I’ll see what I can do.